My name is Aamia. I am a consultant at Deloitte. I primarily focus on behavioral change work with our healthcare clients. But I've done health related behavior change work throughout my time at the organization.
How did you apply for this position?
I was introduced to Deloitte through a case competition I did during my Master’s program, and I really enjoyed everybody that I was working with. It seemed like an exciting organization that was doing good behavioral change work. So when I was looking for jobs, I reached out to some of the folks I had met through that process, and they were able to help me get the interview process started.
How did you get into behavioral science?
I was introduced to behavioral science during my undergraduate career. I was an economics major and I was doing research with a professor who focused primarily on behavioral economics. He had just started a partnership with the City of Philadelphia to integrate behavioral science into their mayoral policy office and integrate behavioral science throughout city policies. They had a bunch of efforts on how to increase pro-social/beneficial behavior such as recycling uptake or how to get folks to fill out certain forms at the end of school year. It was the first time I had seen something really academic put into practice in a way that was cool and beneficial to folks. For example, we had a use case that was about how to increase uptake of the earned income tax credit, which is a program for folks who make below a certain amount of money. If they apply for it, they get a lot of their taxes back, which can be really impactful for folks who are low income. So, I thought that was really interesting in a policy setting and that was the way that I was going to go with it.
When I applied to the Behavioral Science Master’s program at Penn, I was introduced to how you can use behavioral science for health behavior change. So, that's why I'm focusing on that at my job. There are a lot of health behaviors that we're really bad at. Things as simple as going to the gym, that's not a surprise to anybody, but things that are also a little bit more timely, like getting your COVID vaccine, or maybe signing up for a healthcare management program that your health insurance provides to manage a chronic condition. So, I think there's a lot to be done in that space, and it's exciting because simultaneously there are a lot of cool new conversations happening in healthcare about thinking about holistic health. I think behavior change is a key part of that.
Did you always know that you wanted to be a consultant?
No, I thought about it. I think out of undergrad, it was something that people think is a cool job to have, right? And I was like, "Oh, maybe." But I didn't end up doing that straight out of undergrad. I reconsidered it after my Masters program. I realized that consulting organizations are one of the few places where there is a lot of behavior change work happening, and it goes by a lot of different names. Some places within Deloitte will call it human-centered design. Other people within Deloitte will call it user experience. Throughout the organization, I do feel like this way of thinking is very prevalent since consulting firms are generally responding to something being wrong or a problem that needs to be fixed for their client. I think we're forced to be a little bit more with that school of thinking. So it was just serendipitous, and it aligned with both my interests and with where behavior change work is happening.
How do you approach incorporating behavioral insights into your work?
We have some behavioral frameworks that we've developed that we'll often use in client conversations when we're approaching a problem. But I would take that back and say that it really just depends on the client and what the problem that they need help with is. Some clients come very clearly to us with a behavioral change problem, like increasing vaccine uptake for COVID or need people to return their taxes. That's a very clear behavior change problem. But sometimes there is a problem that we hear about from the client, and we realize that there's actually a pretty cool behavioral change lens that can be applied to it.
For example, the client I'm working for right now, they are a major health insurance provider, and they want their members to engage more with them. They want their members to respond more to them. They weren't thinking about it from a behavioral science perspective, but we are. So I think there's a mixture of the ideal client who knows what behavioral science is and is really excited about it. And another kind of client who thinks that it's not on their radar, but they're open to the idea once you show them how it can be integrated into their work, so they can get better results for whatever they're trying to do, whatever target kind of behavior they're hoping to get.
How are behavioral science perceived by stakeholders within your organization?
I think generally our leadership is very excited about it and is supportive of it. It's interesting within a consulting organization where we have a partner structure. So these are folks who are considered our most senior leadership, and there's thousands of partners at the organization. Not everybody has an idea of what behavioral science is. Generally, the partners who are most supportive of behavioral science are probably the most aware of it are probably our life sciences and healthcare space. That's where a lot of folks are concentrated. But generally, people are really supportive of it. In general, behavioral science helps get good client results and as long as the clients are happy, leadership is happy, and it's a win-win for everybody.
How do you position yourself as a behavioral scientist at Deloitte?
I wouldn't say that I'm actually doing behavioral science every day. I wish that was the case. When you're at a consulting organization, it's relationship management. So a lot of the work that I do is for managing our client relationship. That being said, what's cool about being at a consulting organization is that you have a decent amount of projects that you engage in. But when I'm looking for projects, I try to make sure to look for engagements with clients that are focused on behavior change. And of course, I'm sure there's going to be a scenario in the future where I don't get to do a behavioral change project. I would say maybe 25% of my week is like actual behavioral science, and then 75% is more building decks and managing client relationships and pushing for selling new work. But I think that's true for any job, right? Like even if you think about a doctor, they're not diagnosing 100% of the time. I think that's true for behavioral scientists as well.
What is the biggest challenge that you have faced in terms of communicating BeSci insights to your clients?
It's tough because, as you know, behavioral science is a growing field and we're trying to still figure out what works. When you come from an academic background, you have this mindset of experimentation. If I'm running an experiment, I understand that I have to try different treatments. Some of which will work and some of which won't work, and I have to evaluate. And after I evaluate, I can iterate and make changes, and then evaluate again, and so on and so forth to understand what works.
I think what's tough in a client-facing relationship is that not all clients have that same mindset. Some clients are just like, 'I want to see results.’ or, 'I don't have time to pay you to run this experiment and then iterate again and again, and then the fifth experiment is when we see the best results.' A lot of clients just want a solution. It's been tough balancing what you can actually do from an experimentation standpoint versus what limitations you have from just the fact that you're in a client-facing role, and you can't tell the client, 'Oh, I actually don't know if this is going to work or not.' You need something that is for sure going to work
How do you stay updated with research and new insights in behavioral science?
If I have downtime at work, I'll usually go on academic Twitter and kind of see what's happening there. But I don't think that's a comprehensive way to keep up to date with what's happening in the behavioral science space. I'm still navigating that. Twitter is honestly really, really helpful. In an ideal world, if the paper comes out, you could sit down for an hour and read the whole thing. But in reality, you need a 5 to 10 bullet point summary of what's important. What can I take away and use for my client work? And Twitter is just a good medium for that, where generally people are pretty good at just being brief with the takeaway. It disregards a lot of the nuance that goes into research, but I think that's a fine line that you have to learn to balance. I found LinkedIn posts to be pretty helpful too.
What topics or areas of interest in BeSci that you have?
I've been talking a lot about incentivization at work and how that works and doesn't work. For example, we discussed tolls on a bridge and how the toll changes throughout the day. During business hours, it's more expensive, but on weekends it's cheaper. I find it interesting to play with these dynamics. If I had more time, I'd like to look into the data behind it, as I imagine it's public. It's fascinating to see how these changes affect behavior patterns. The same is true for energy usage, where there's a dynamic component at play.
What is your aspiration?
I'm enjoying where I am. I think I want to get more client work under my belt. I guess at one point I have to decide if I want to make behavioral science my primary focus, or if it's something that I want to integrate into existing client relationships. Those to me are two different things. Saying, 'I will primarily do behavioral science consulting,' versus, 'I will do consulting and I will try to weave in behavioral science in whatever way I can.
What is one piece of advice you would give to someone who started their career, based on either your personal or professional experience?
I would say when you're looking for jobs, don't limit yourself to roles that explicitly say behavioral science in the job title because you're not going to find one. You're better off reaching out to folks who you know do behavioral change work and building a relationship with them and getting to know their organization. It seems like that has definitely been more successful for me, and I think that's also been more successful for other friends and colleagues who have entered the space.
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This interview has been edited for clarity and length.
Aamia and I had this chat on 03/14/2023.
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